Today:s Relationship: The Surprising Benefits Of Marriage

NBC ID: ARB6QAYLQK | Production Unit: Today Show | Media Type: Aired Show | Media ID: NY-TDY-20080721-0001 | Air Date(s): 07/21/2008 | Event Date(s): 07/21/2008

Transcript

Event Date(s): 07/21/2008 | Event Location(s): Today New York Studio | Description: Insert of book"The Marriage Benefit" by Mark O'Connell PhD. In live studio interview with TODAY's Hoda Kotbe and Kathie Lee Gifford, clinical instructor of psychology at Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Hospital, Mark O'Connell: HODA KOTB: And we are back with more of TODAY. And in TODAY'S RELATIONSHIPS, the surprising benefits of marriage. KATHIE LEE GIFFORD: Get out your pencils, because there is going to be a test. KOTB: Yes, there is. GIFFORD: Mark O'Connell, Dr. O'Connell, a clinical instructor of psychology at Harvard Medical School--excuse us... KOTB: Mm-hmm. GIFFORD: ...and Cambridge Hospital has been counseling couples for more than 25 years. He's now come out with a new book, comes out today... KOTB: Mm-hmm. GIFFORD: ...called"The Marriage Benefit: The Surprising Rewards of Staying Together." Welcome to you. I had a chance... KOTB: Welcome. GIFFORD: ...to look at quite a bit of this, and I hate to say it, but you're right. On every--on every single count you happen to be right. KOTB: Right. GIFFORD: I guess that's that Harvard education. Dr. MARK O'CONNELL (Author,"The Marriage Benefit"): I don't think so. KOTB: What's the biggest problem, the expectations people have going into a marriage? The ever--the happily ever after concept? Dr. O'CONNELL: Well, I think that's part of it. I think there are lots of problems, but the one you just mentioned, you really put your finger on a huge piece of it. I mean, I think that we have a really outdated view of marriage, and we think of marriage as a kind of safe, conventional, frankly, boring idea. And I think there are a lot of ways in which we haven't evolved a new idea of marriage that is more in keeping with the culture in which we live. KOTB: But, I mean, we were talking about this--I mean, you read studies that say married people live longer, married people--it sounds like married people have, you know, the better life. Dr. O'CONNELL: Well, I think there are two pieces of that. One is--actually I think a lot of those studies show that men have a better life, but women don't necessarily... GIFFORD: Hello. Been telling you that for years. KOTB: Yes, yes. Dr. O'CONNELL: ...have a better life. And I don't think it has to be so asymmetric and so uneven. GIFFORD: You guys don't usually cook and clean and birth. Dr. O'CONNELL: Right. That's true. GIFFORD: You show up at 5:00 and say `Where's my cocktail?' Dr. O'CONNELL: But--that's so true. KOTB: Mark, is it just that we're not spending enough time with our spouses? Is that it? Because it seems like everybody is preoccupied with we're working a lot... Dr. O'CONNELL: Yeah. KOTB: ...we're on the computer a lot, we're watching TV. Just not having this back and forth. Dr. O'CONNELL: Well, a lot of it is that we're incredibly busy and so we lose time for just those absolutely simple, meaningful human things like having a relationship. But I think the question that's worth asking around that is, why? I mean, why aren't we spending as much time together? And part of it is the busyness, but I also think that part of it is we think of marriage as boring. We don't think of it as a rewarding thing that people can actually do together... GIFFORD: Mm-hmm. Dr. O'CONNELL: ...where they'll change and where they'll grow. GIFFORD: Well, just the dating process is fun. You're planning... Dr. O'CONNELL: Yeah. GIFFORD: ...you're always planning the next thing you can do to be together and to meet each other's needs. Dr. O'CONNELL: Right. KOTB: Mm-hmm. GIFFORD: After you're married, you're sharing diapers and mortgages and... KOTB: Yeah. Dr. O'CONNELL: Right. GIFFORD: ...who's going to take out the trash. Dr. O'CONNELL: Well, not only that, but I think after the honeymoon phase of marriage is over--and this is, I think, where we really get screwed up... GIFFORD: Yeah. Dr. O'CONNELL: ...because we think of, `Well, the honeymoon phase is great,' but then you sink into this boring, complacent life where you get increasingly estranged from each other. KOTB: Mm-hmm. GIFFORD: Well, you never think it's going to happen to you, though, right? Dr. O'CONNELL: That's what I... GIFFORD: When you're in the honeymoon stage. Dr. O'CONNELL: Right, right. KOTB: Let's take our little quiz we talked about. GIFFORD: Let's take this little quiz. KOTB: Now, you're actually taking the quiz and I'm asking the questions, so enjoy this. GIFFORD: OK. KOTB: All right, here's a true/false one. All right, let's see if you can get this one right."Lousy sex is good sex." True or false? GIFFORD: He thinks--because I read the book--he thinks that lousy sex is better than no sex at all. KOTB: What do you think? What do you think? GIFFORD: I don't think so. KOTB: What do you... Dr. O'CONNELL: Well, you have your crib notes. GIFFORD: That's one of the few things I don't agree with him on. Dr. O'CONNELL: Well, I think I mean something a little bit different. I mean, obviously... GIFFORD: You better, because you've got about two minutes. Dr. O'CONNELL: ...there are a lot--there are a lot of different kinds of lousy sex out there, right? So it depends on your definition of lousy sex. GIFFORD: Yeah. Dr. O'CONNELL: But what I'm talking about a kind of sex that is different from the images of sexuality that we're all bombarded with. GIFFORD: Which are all perfect people... Dr. O'CONNELL: Which perfect people... GIFFORD: ...going for five hours. We're not all Sting. Dr. O'CONNELL: The action figure--exactly. GIFFORD: You know? KOTB: Sting? GIFFORD: Tantric. He can go forever apparently. Yeah. KOTB: He can? I didn't know that. Dr. O'CONNELL: Right, he's a perfect action figure. Actually, would you--would you like to say more about that? Because I can step aside. GIFFORD: Well, it's that tantric thing. KOTB: Yes. GIFFORD: Do you write about that? I didn't get to that part. KOTB: All right, let's get to the next question. GIFFORD: Yes. KOTB: All right, this is for you, too. GIFFORD: I want him to stay for a second segment, please. KOTB: What? OK, wait. OK, true or false:"Freedom goes out the window once you say I do." Freedom. Kathie Lee, this is your... GIFFORD: Well, I say--I say that's false, but people think that--they think it's true. KOTB: And... Dr. O'CONNELL: I agree, I think it's false. KOTB: Why do you think it's false? Why is it false? Dr. O'CONNELL: I think we have a very wrong-headed idea of what commitment really is. I mean, we think of commitment as something that causes us to lose all of our opportunities. I don't think we realize the degree to which just living in the reality of our constraints and our limitations and our choices is actually a way that we can change and grow. One of the--yeah, go ahead. KOTB: But clearly you have more freedom, though, when you're single. You can do what you want, when you want, clearly, right? I mean... Dr. O'CONNELL: But that's--I think that's ultimately one of the great illusions of our culture. You know, there's a wonderful story in a book by Julian Barnes in which this guy, he dies and he thinks he's gone to heaven because he can have whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. KOTB: Mm-hmm. Dr. O'CONNELL: It take him about three days to learn he's actually in hell, which is--I think is a wonderful... KOTB: That's good. That is good. Dr. O'CONNELL: ...a wonderful parable for the idea that we can have ultimate freedom. KOTB: OK, so freedom through commitment is what you say. Explain that? Dr. O'CONNELL: You know, I think that, at the end of the day, one of the things I really wanted to get across is when we think about expanding our lives, we invariably think about looking outside of our relationships and outside of the lives we already have for something new. And I want to really push the idea that we actually find more freedom, more expansion if we look in the lives that we already have. KOTB: Mm-hmm. GIFFORD: You and I were talking during the break, and I think this is one of the big, big problems. It's easier to look at the problem of your spouse or your mate... KOTB: Mm-hmm. GIFFORD: ...and ignore the ones that you have. That's why people get married over and over and over again, hm, and get--and keep making the same mistakes, because the problem is internal, hello. And you got to look at that first, right? Dr. O'CONNELL: You bet. I mean, one of the things... GIFFORD: Our friend's third marriage, he's finally got a it right. Go ahead, doctor. KOTB: Please, go ahead. Dr. O'CONNELL: I don't know why I had anything more to say that you're already adding. No, one of the things I really wanted to get across in this book is the idea that what we learn in our relationships can be things that we can actually take to our lives at large and they can be lessons that we can learn from. And that's one of the primary lessons, that we look inside rather than outside. GIFFORD: You've been married over 20 years, right, doctor? KOTB: How many--just one time, right? Dr. O'CONNELL: Just one time. KOTB: OK, quit showing off. GIFFORD: Show off. KOTB: All right, next question. GIFFORD: Harvard. KOTB: OK."The more things change, the more they stay the same." Is that a question, true or false? GIFFORD: I think that's false. Dr. O'CONNELL: You were doing so well. KOTB: She has the notes. GIFFORD: No, it's--there are no answers here. KOTB: Yes, they are--oh, the answer is false. GIFFORD: I didn't see that. KOTB: OK, go on. Why is it false? Dr. O'CONNELL: I think what they're getting at with that question is the whole idea... GIFFORD: You stay out of my cards, all right? Dr. O'CONNELL: I think one of the things they're getting at with that question is the whole idea that once you get married, everybody stays the same and things get boring and, you know, complacent as things go forward. And it's an assumption about marriage. I think it's one of the assumptions we have about why marriages get boring. But it's wrong. I mean, we--we're always changing. Our relationships are changing... KOTB: Yeah. I agree with that. Dr. O'CONNELL: ...our lives are changing. GIFFORD: And you have to change with life. Dr. O'CONNELL: Marriage is a constant renegotiation. GIFFORD: Mm-hmm. KOTB: Right. Dr. O'CONNELL: And, you know, I think one of the principles that I really want to try to get at is the whole idea is that we just learn from each other. KOTB: Right. Dr. O'CONNELL: We learn from each other if we really realize that we're separate people. GIFFORD: And don't get divorced for a hangnail. KOTB: Yeah. That's... GIFFORD: You know, remember your vows when you go through something like that. KOTB: You know, that would be a good title for a book, too. GIFFORD: I--well, I'm a little busy right now. KOTB: All right, OK, so again, the title of this book... GIFFORD: Let the good doctor write that one next. KOTB: All right. This is"The Marriage Benefit" by Mark O'Connell. GIFFORD: It's a terrific book. We've had a little fun... KOTB: Yes. GIFFORD: ...but it's a terrific book. Congratulations. KOTB: Thanks for the advice. We really appreciate it. GIFFORD: It really is. KOTB: All right.

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